Nice one.

Unite Against Fascism are a branch of the communist Socialist Workers Party who are opposed to democracy. The UAF's leaders are all senior members so any decent journalist would not ask them for advice on the EDL. Its the equivalent of asking Nick Griffin for his opinion of Harriet Harman. Pathetic

That's nonsense, I'm afraid. UAF might well have started life as a typical SWP front, aimed at recruiting more drones to push papers, but that doesn't negate the fact there are an awful lot of non-SWP types involved, grassroots fans only concerned with driving the noxious EDL and their racism from the terraces. And while I'd be the last person to defend the SWP's internal regime, there lack of democracy has far more to do with the bizarre nature of English far left sects than anything to do with communists, something about which the wildly vacillating SWP have little real understanding. The hard left, in general, have an honourable record in combating the Fash so the idea that that somehow makes one unqualified to comment is just silly. The EDL is simply a cover for fascists, racists and assorted scumbags to try and give their filth a semi-legitimate veneer. Can't see your problem, personally. Unless...

*their* I'm so ashamed...

Will the lad in the photo hoodie nxt season say Bolton Championship Division

I'm sure i read somewhere that West Ham often turned out in support of the SWP during the eighties? I may be wrong.

im sure theyd be welcome at klanfield

I'm a Sheffield United fan for my sins and have been all my life, I'm also a very active anti-fascist campaigner and researcher. Your reference to the Blades Business Crew and the EDL is a way off in my opinion. I've seen very very little EDL activity at Bramall Lane or in the surrounding area (where I live). The local EDL pages for Sheffield and South Yorkshire are amongst the most inactive in the country. Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday are both very active in the the community and I've helped out with various campaigns at both grounds and both have a real commitment to ensuring the safety of all. The local police football intelligence monitoring team say that Sheffield has one of the lowest levels of support for the EDL (and BNP) in the country. That can be backed up with the lack of any electoral progress that any far-right organisation has made in Sheffield over the years.

Fans are organising against the EDL....in your dreams.I was at Bolton game and saw the uaf trying to hand out leaflets and the few that took any put them straight in the bin. How come no pictures of the these brave anti fascists not one, and the only quotes are from uaf members. The uaf are a laughing stock how many turned out at the last EDL demo......remind me again. Oh yes less than 20. Dear dear dear must try harder.

John, sorry to tell you this but you're wrong. I have a quite a few family members who are both active in the EDL and active Blades fans too. From talking to them it's clear that there are many more. Although a minority, the picture is not as rosy as you make out.

Andyf, would this be the same EDL that has peados in its ranks? Oh, dear, I believe it is http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/paedophile-still-active-within-edl-leadership Racist morons and kiddy fiddlers. Nice...

Is it true that the EDL leadership is being boycotted as they spent all the money from the hoodies etc on coke? At the same time blaming immigrants for the evils of drug dealing in their area? Druggies and Peados, is this the British way of life they are trying so hard to defend?

seems certain edl followers are in denial.nf were obliterated from the football stands by the likes of the brave anti nazi football firm called ZULU WARRIORS,who were well known to be the 1st anti nazi racist bashing crew full of white,black,chinese & asian brummies.FACT

Harry Paterson,Wasn't Denis nilsen a activist of the labour when he wasn't murdering people. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones..google liarsbuggersandthieves. The left really are on there arse,just tired old baby boomers with no energy.I don't think they even believe there own bull shit any more,look at the average uaf demo nowadays it's like a day trip from a hippy care home.old and tired fighting the battles of the 70's, against the a young and motivated EDL.

Unite Against Fascism are a bunch of middle class hypocrites who want to make out they care about 'waysism', and bigotry. However when white people get murdered by racist blacks and Muslims they are nowhere to be seen. When gay people are driven out of the East end of London they are nowhere to be seen. They don't care about the poor and oppressed or indeed about racist violence. The hypocritical middle class merely care about rebelling against mummy and daddy and making themselves feel smug and superior to the white working class people whom they treat with contempt. The UAF are hypocritical middle class scum.

For all your education you middle class student anti 'fascists' don't seem to know much about anything. 'Fascist, waysist, nazi are just words you throw around when you can't win the argument. Open your eyes and ears and realise you are being used.

uaf are a joke....old washed up hippys with brown teeth and better beards than the islamic terrorist they love and that just the women.... uaf couldnt force a piss out never mind the EDL.... uaf you aint ready.

'being used'? That would be the idiots who buy into EDL lies and BNP bullshit. Blaming your hated minorities for all the ills of a system that sets us one against another and rips us all off while some of us stupidly blame blacks, muslims, immigrants etc. Meanwhile, the establishment sit there pissing themselves laughing at the idiots and brainwashed, hate-filled morons who are happy to be diverted from the *real* cause of poverty, job losses, low pay etc. Divide and rule, as always. Wake up and see what's going on around you. Jesus...

those leaflets with the so called ´aims and views´ of the EDL are absolute, far eft propaganda bollocks, it´s all the left can do to gain support, is lie lie and more lies, it´s exactly like churchill said, ´THE FACISTS OF THE FUTURE SHALL CALL THEMSELVES ANTI-FACISTS`. EDL all the way!

Harry Paterson we don't blame minorities for wanting a better life,living on benefits. No we blame the politicians for allowing millions of people into this country just too enforce diversity on us. Labours own wannsee conference where they decided to ethnically engineer a new country without a mandate or evening bothering to tell us. No we don't blame minorities,even though there not minorities in a lot of places now, we blame political vermin and and there useful idiots like you.

Your position is based on irrational hatred, though. It isn't logical and it doesn't stand up to more than a couple of minutes intelligent scrutiny. Firstly, the idea that a political party, *any* political party, held some sort of secret conference with the specific agenda of engineering a "new country" is firstly, bollocks, secondly ridiculous and thirdly a supposition for which there exists no one single shred of credible evidence. Fourthly, it completely ignores the reality which was Blue Labour *outflanked the Tories from the right* on the question of immigration and in Jack Straw actually took a much tougher position on immigration, all the better to pander to ignorant Daily Mail-reading bigots. Apart from anything else, it's the petty, backward prejudice of the whole thing that makes the EDL/BNP position a total joke. Capital can move around the world at the press of a computer keyboard, wrecking communities and switching entire industries from one side of the globe to another. If capital can move so freely, in search of ever greater profits,without a thought to the immense human cost, then why can't labour (workers) move equally freely to ensure better living conditions and a more secure future? The idea that pond-life like the far right are oh-so radical is joke. They're actually doing the establishment's job for them, sowing division, fostering hatred so they can continue to divide and rule and drive down still further living conditions and wages for *all* working class people. We are united by class not race. You and all your ubermensch have far more in common with a non-English speaking Pakistani, working in a sweat-shop. than you do with an English,Old Etonian, multimillionaire cabinet minister, lol! Get a grip; ditch the hatred, embrace intelligence, study history and try and learn from it. You are dupes and gullible fools doing the establishment's job for them. Rampant neoliberalism and unfettered capitalism is the cause of the world's economic woes, not immigrants, blacks, Muslims etc and anyone with the slightest grasp of reality can see that.

Harry Paterson you need to up your game lad this is easy,no secret meeting try googling Andrew Neather and all will reveal it's self. So you advocate the free movement of people mmm ok,does that include all 174 million in Pakistan.where do we stop 70,80,90 million. Listen comrade give me an old Etonian Englishman any day over some Pakistani who's thinks it's ok to kill his own daughter because she dosnt do what he says. The left have left this country bankrupt financially,morally and the sooner its sent to the abottoir to be dispatched halal style the better. The futures all right.

Andrew Neather???? Are you real, lol??? A discredited crank who no one takes seriously aside from conspiracy-theorists, paranoid cranks and, oh, racists ...Try googling Mr Neather in a bit more detail, go a little further than the Daily Mail hysteria and all becomes clear. Jesus, lol! As for this, "does that include all 174 million in Pakistan.where do we stop 70,80,90 million" The stupidity of this is only matched by its arrogance. It may surprise you to know that this revolting, mean-spirited, dirty little shithole of a country, run down by generations of the *British* *white* establishment, isn't actually the dream homeland for these millions of Pakistanis you've bizarrely conjured up from the fevered realms of your hate-filled, paranoid imagination. The rest of your ill-informed and illogical rant is embarrassing. "...give me an old Etonian Englishman any day over some Pakistani who's thinks it's ok to kill his own daughter because she dosnt do what he says." OK, I'll play your thick game of extrapolating the actions of an extreme minoirty and applying it to the majority. I'd rather a hard-working Pakistani, like the lads on my old shop floor, for example, who worked hard, paid taxes and bought their kids up to show some respect and get an education than an Old Etonian Englishman, full of perverted and repressed sexuality, induced by generations of in-breeding and public school buggery who thinks he has a God given right to cheat, lie, steal and rob simply because he's in 'business' or 'politics'. But if I've got to have a "...Pakistani who's thinks it's ok to kill his own daughter because she dosnt do what he says" I'd struggle to choose between him and a hypocritical, white, evangelical Christian who thinks its ok to murder gays and firebomb abortion clinics then go shag hookers while preaching family values! Or maybe I'd prefer a black gospel preacher who genuinely preaches love to a white, Anglo, Catholic priest who thinks it's ok to bugger innocent kids. This sort of ill-informed bigotry and mindless ranting, backed with zero science, sero evidence or even a coherent argument might go down well with the single digit IQ brigade who prefer to hit first and think later, if ever, but for those of us capable of rational thought and a grasp of logic, it's just deeply sad and not a little disturbing.

nil satis - YAWN.... They may very well be welcome at "Klanfield", but I doubt they would get in. More spares down Woodison, I hear.

Feel better now you've had your little rant, so was Andrew Neather a crank when he was advising Blair,Straw and Blunkett,or is it only since he let the cat out of bag. Funny when confronted with the truth how you resort to name calling,a sure sign of a leftie losing the argument as well as the plot. If this shit hole of a country is so bad why do they risk life and limb to try and get here? Why is the Muslim population growing 10 times faster than any other or is that the daily mails fault. Your hatred of this country and its people is something you'll have to confront yourself but it's not healthy to carry so much hatred against the country you live in.Why dont you go to Liverpool crown court and show your support to the pakistani gang there for grooming young White girls, but you couldnt care less about white children could you?That's the difference between decent human beings and the retards on the left, were motivated by love of our country and your driven by hatred,all full of bile, Look at the face on any leftie,contorted and twisted with hatred.

Oh, Andy Goebbels would be proud of you, mate. It's like arguing colour with a blind man with you types. You simply ignore arguments and just produce a fresh stream of emotive invective, backed, as usual, with no facts in support of your warped thesis. So a Pakistani gang groomed some white girls? Do you think that's because Pakistanis are genetically and/or culturally predisposed to such behaviour or could it just be that this gang are loathsome sub-human predators? You know, a bit like your EDL kiddy-fiddler mate who travelled to Canada to groom a 13 yr old girl ;-) As for hating 'my' country, well, I don't hate it. I pity it and it saddens me the cess-pool of misery, hate, racism, bigotry, poverty it's turned into. Loving a country (a completely arbitrary and artificial concept, by the way)or being proud of it is just stupid. Why be proud of something over which you have absolutely no control, influence or power? It's utterly mad! You may be as well be proud of having two feet, lol! 'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel' a great man once wrote. We only have to view your demented ravings to see the truth of that...

Aye and uncle Joe would be proud of you, you could argue colour with a blind person just needs a bit of imagination some thing the left lack but that's a different argument. The fact is the demographic and cultural replacement of the indigenous( or for you because we don't want you to spit your tea out) host population without a mandate or ever asking for our opinions is evil and disgusting. It's not right for the Tibetans or palastinians and it's not right for us. I don't think pakistanis are genetically predisposed to do any thing but there culture is, and if that's what they want to do who is any one to stop them. In there OWN country but not here and if they carry on more and more people are going to get upset. Why no cry of racism? Can only white people be racist? To us country and nation are our community an extension of family, no body suffered more than the working class in this country during the industrial revolution but adding millions too the population of this country isn't going to make there lives any better. "The fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists" W S Chuchill,as an even greater man than Dr Johnson once said,as we can see from your hysterical bed wetting old Winnie was wrong.

* wasn't wrong.. Sorry

The Churchill Society have no evidence for his quote, so it's fair to say he didn't say it. As for the 'working class' credentials of the EDL - bankrolled by multi-millionaire Alan Lake, led by the very proletarian-sounding Stephen Waxy-Lemon, attack trades union demos, attack Occupy camps, offer support to the police against anti-cuts protestors. That doesn't sound very pro-working class to me.

Sorry but this article is wrong in that the Blades Business Crew or BBC for short are not in anyway linked to the EDL or any other far right group. Maybe some Blades are EDL but no way would the proper BBC lads openly support them due to respect for their fellow BBC members from ethnic minority backgrounds,of which there are quite a few. Like the Zulus,the BBC are one of the most ethnically diverse football firms in the country. Sheffield has sizeable black,asian,arab communities and Bramall Lane is slap bang in the middle of one such multi ethnic area.Its only natural the club attracts fans from there,some of whom become involved in football violence. Anybody who has researched correctly will see this has been a theme since the mid 80s when the BBC rose to dominate the hooligan scene in Sheffield and still do to this very day(at least the diluted version of it that is) Top boys that were black or mixed race earned the respect, no mean feat in a city of this size. Some achieved legendary status and will go down in Blades folklore and history(R.I.P LD,SG). Perhaps Mr Jenkins needs to cast his eye over the OCS,where some Wednesdays lads are active EDL,such those who attacked peaceful anti racists demonstating in Barnsley town centre against a BNP stall which can be found there most saturdays. Im not saying all Wednesday fans are racist,far from it as some are decent lads(and they also have a few black hooligans),others however before them have been linked to c18 though Chelsea,when the Headhunters were in their heyday especially around the national team in the 90s.These links still survive today. They also have links with extremist loyalist groups who are in turn linked to the EDL and NWI as well as other far right nationalist groups. Wednesday gather most of their support from the north of the city which isnt as ethnically diverse, and surronding areas which also are less so compared to the centre of Sheffield and other Blades strongholds,thats why you see less non white fans at Hillsbro compared to Bramall Lane. Jimmy Doyle you state you have family that are EDL/BBC and you know loads of others that are,I find that highly unlikely and you are probably a member of the EDL keyboard division who requent opposition sites trying to counter and spread more lies and falsehoods. I wouldnt usually comment but I consider yours and Mr Jenkins comments as insulting and a great slur on my club and my friends. Also someone mentioned motivation,that the EDL were young and had loads of it,is that why they are presently staging less demos and have much less numbers. Infighting,power struggles,splinter groups,swindling of funds,etc do I need to go on.The emergance of the Infidels is testament to this,who are now in open conflict with the EDL leadership. At least the NWI and Snowy Shaw admit they are racists,though a lot of this inner fighting stems from disputes over money and merchandise,money being the root of all evil as described by Harry P,much more eloquently than I ever could. We need to live together in peace like we did before 9/11 changed everything and the war on terror started.Could someone please tell me when we were attacked by the Taliban,or by Sadam?Both CIA assets by the way until they were deemed surplus to requirements when old enemies had been defeated and a new enemey was required.I guess thats a different story.....

@ Harry Patterson; "I'd rather a hard-working Pakistani, like the lads on my old shop floor".....I bet you owned the factory Harry and wanted the Pakistani lads to provide you with cheap labour. I love the way lefties are invariably self hating middle class hypocrites.

The most recent analysis of the British Crime Survey shows that in 2004, focusing on the most violent racial attacks, (those that involved wounding and murder) 4,000 victims were of African or Asian ethnicity. Among the white population 20,000 people were victims. In the most serious categories of racist attacks the 10% of Britiain's population who are not white commit 80% of the most violent racist attacks!

"The statistics available in table 3.5 of the Home Office document, Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2007/8, tell us that: In the three year period 2005/06 to 2007/08, Blacks were suspected of murdering 74 Whites in England and Wales Whites were suspected of murdering 22 Blacks. Blacks, therefore, were suspected of murdering Whites at a rate in the area of 74/22 = 3.36 times more often during the period specified. However, the 2001 census tells us that only 2.0% percent of the population of the UK was Black in 2001, whilst 91.3% of the population was White. Thus we may infer that the Black 2.0% of the population was responsible for the deaths of around 74 Whites and the White 91.3% of the population was responsible for the deaths of about 22 Blacks in England and Wales during the specified period. Thus, in 2001, the individual black person could be seen to be around 91.3/2.0 x 74/22 = 153.55 more likely to kill an individual white person than the reverse"

Even when the liberal anti-white media report ethnic crime against whites, they still try to weasel their way out of the truth. But their ideal is to give it as little coverage as possible. That’s what has happened with other horrific cases: The kidnap and incineration of fifteen-year-old Kriss Donald by Muslims in 2004; The torture, rape and murder of sixteen-year-old Mary-Ann Leneghan by blacks in 2005; The murder of fourteen-year-old Charlene Downes, sexually exploited and disposed of by Muslims in 2003; The attempted murder of sixteen-year-old Henry Webster, left with serious brain injuries after a sixteen-to-one assault by Muslims in 2007. There are of course thousands of other attacks against whites which do not even make the local newspaper (I have known personally many many white people who have been attacked, legs broken, stabbed, slashed, attempted rapes, robberies etc etc). The last two cases have macabre twists that should have had the media climbing all over them: Charlene Downes’ body is rumored to have been turned into kebabs and Henry Webster was attacked with a hammer while he was at school, after adult Muslims were whistled up by cell phone and text message. But to understand what is really going on, you have to remember that it isn’t just white victims who get ignored. Look at Isiah Young-Sam, a black murdered by Muslims during a race riot in 2005. That murder was premeditated and arose from long-standing communal hatred. It was a big news-story, but it was almost completely ignored and is now long forgotten by the liberal media. The Muslims in Birmingham murdered by blacks in the recent Birmingham riots will also be swept under the carpet. Compare the coverage given to the murders of the blacks Stephen Lawrence and Anthony Walker. Those murders weren’t premeditated and didn’t reflect long-standing communal hatred, but they had the magic ingredient for big media attention: they were committed by whites! The conclusion is clear. The media do not care about racism or about non-white suffering: they care only about hammering Honky. They invert the truth about racism in Britain, pretending that whites are its chief perpetrators when in fact they’re its chief victims. Non-whites are still a minority here, but they commit most of the “race crime

Please tell me Frank Rudy is only 14 because only a child could write such gibberish,so if Franks young and daft then life will educate you but if not then give your head a shake. Never been attacked by the Taliban what was 7/7,live together in peace like we did before? So no grooming of White girls in Sheffield then? You need to educate yourself about Islam,as Islam grows so does the demands for more Islamic preference in every thing. As Islam grows so will the resistance to it,this is a new phase of an old conflict and no amount of wishfull thinking that we all hold hands in some big utopia is going to change that. Things are changing fast even the most liberal Muslim country Tunisia has voted in an Islamist government,Eygpt is the same. The Coptic Christians are the oldest Christian church in the world and Eygpt was origanally christian and they allowed Islam to infiltrate their country and now there a persecuted minority,you may want that for this country but a growing number don't. Not just here but in Europe we recognise the threat and won't allow it to happen. Sooner or later and I think sooner people are going to wake up to the reality of situation we are in. Maybe the wake up call will be another bus getting blown up or Iran getting nukes,who's knows but it's coming. .

Er, I realise that hatred and loathing of the sort beloved of the far right isn't too keen on letting facts get in the way of a good prejudice but it seems the concepts of race and religion are too complex for them to grasp. Let me explain for you; Islam is a religion, Pakistanis are a race of people. I doubt any rational people would object to condemnation of extreme religious nutters, of whatever stripe. Be it misogynistic, honour-killing Muslims or child-abusing Catholics or even abortion clinic-bombing headcases. What connects these people is not race, country of origin, culture or nationality. No; it's the irrationality of extreme religious fundamentalism. It has nothing whatsoever to do with race at all. The EDL's pathetic and transparent attempts to market themselves as some sort of non-racist group of honourable patriots (as if there could even be such a thing!), concerned only with stopping Islamic fundamentalism (although why not *all* religious fundamentalism?), is clearly shown to be a demonstrable lie given the racist bile spewed out above and on the demos these types frequent. I know. I've heard them. The far right, for all its bluster, is shrinking, riven with splits and feuds and, most importantly, when a nation has a history of fighting fascism and a collective memory of the unspeakable horrors perpetrated by the fash, there is no chance whatsoever of it gaining a foothold in the UK. Not a chance. I'd also smirk, if it wasn't so tragic, at the irony/hypocrisy of so-called patriots embracing an ideology *real* British patriots died fighting. Tragic, laughable and contemptible.

Manxman, again the typical Nazi disregard for the truth surfaces. In contrast to your paranoid fantasy view of my life, I live in a council house, was bought up on one of the most notorious slums in central Scotland and spent years on shop floors, on shifts, as an unskilled drone. I'm almost a cliche as far as working class stereotypes go and you couldn't be more wrong ;-)

Of course you are Harry......I believe you. You've called me a nazi (national socialist) but I noticed you haven't addressed any of the facts I have produced for you regarding attacks/ murders by ethnic minorities against white victims and the fact that these are ignored by the media and middle class lefties. Can you explain to me why you and the media want to ignore these facts and also why lefties don't seem to care so much when blacks kill each other and don't seem too bothered about people who are genuinely disadvantaged like disabled people. Why no demonstrations and hysteria about rights for disabled people? Not sexy enough for the left? Why do you get so excited about 'waysism'? Can only whites be 'waysist' or do you think perhaps Pakistanis, Africans, Chinese etc are all equally of more 'waysist' homophobic and bigotted? Have you got any opinion about attacks against gay people by Muslims? What about the fact that wars are being fought on behalf of global big business and the fact that immigration is being done against the wishes of the English working class on behalf of big business and their political wing, the LibLabCon. Where does that fit in with your lefty/ Marxist/ socialist/ communist principles? Who is more of a threat to working class people in Europe and Afghanistan? The LibLabCon or nationalists such as Marine Le Pen? British people died fighting to prevent an invasion of Britain by a foreign power and people. They didn't give a monkey about Nazi ideology. Answer my questions without childish name calling and maybe we can have an adult debate?

One more thing Harry......How many votes did the 'socialists' get at the last Euro elections (proportional representation gives most accurate reflection)? There is minimal support for blatant communism/ socialism in Britain but there is huge support for nationalist policies. You are right however that there isn't a political vehicle able to harness that support. Why don't you attack the friends of global capitalism rather than nationalists? Nationalism is instinctive and good. You don't presumeably deny Tibetan people the right to a homeland.

A whole slew of questions so let's dispense with some of them by answering, firstly,I've no idea if what you say is true regarding alleged discrepancies in the reporting/prosecution of crimes by non-whites compared to those by whites. I check my facts before I wade in (an example here for you, regarding the lies spread by the far right and their camp followers and the sort of research I do to get *facts* not hysteria http://harrypaterson.co.uk/blog/bah-bah-whitesheep/ ) Secondly, I haven't seen any of the points I raised first answered so I don't feel any obligation to grant people a courtesy they don't extend to me. Thirdly, *all* racism is wrong, no question and your attempts to paint me as a middle-class, hand-wringing, white-hating liberal are ridiculous. Racism is irrational. Fact. It's based on no science, no moral or ethical framework and is not something anyone with any human decency or compassion should have any truck with. Politically, as I've said, it's an age-old tactic by the establishment to divide and weaken the working class and you're simply doing their job for them. The far right attack trade unionists and working class militants and, therefore, are the enemy of the working class and the collective cat's paw of the ruling class. Finally all the questions about gays etc have already been answered by my earlier comments. Let me make it clear to you; unlike Nazis, I believe discrimination against gays, blacks, Muslims,whites and other races/groups etc are wrong. Period. No exceptions. Nazis, on the other hand, only think those things are wrong when it's not the white far right doing it. That makes them hypocrites and people lacking in compassion, humanity and decency. I've a great deal of experience of the fash and despite the face they try to present in public, I've seen the things they do, heard the things they say and a cursory look at http://edlnews.co.uk/ shows the EDL/BNP to comprise either vicious, pitiless, unintelligent racists and not a few convicted criminals or paranoid, conspiracy-theorist cranks not unlike the unhinged militias to be found hiding out in the mountains of Butfuck County, USA. If this ragtag mob of lumpens really are the master race then we are all utterly fucked...

Harry ever heard of Kriss Donald? The EDL are against Islamic extremists and have non White members. The fash will never get a foot hold in this country..lol. I'm willing to bet that to you the BNP and UKIP are the fash,they have Between them 13 mep's. Almost a million people voted for the BNP, makes me laugh how the left rewrite history,ww2 wasn't some great anti fascist crusade. We declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland and we had an alliance with Poland and we honoured it. This country would of fought just as hard against your hero Stalin. I take as you hate nationalism so much you'll be voting against Scottish indepence then?

I never said I hated nationalism, per se. I hate racism, fascism and blind, irrational patriotism. Nationalism is a tactical question for me as are questions of independence. I believe in the rights of nations to self determination. As a democrat I could hardly say otherwise. Specifically, in terms of Scotland, I've changed my mind from opposing it to wholeheartedly supporting it, based on the class content of the pro-Independence movement. It's overwhelmingly inclusive and progressive and far to the left of anything on offer by Blue Labour. *If* socialism, or at least left social democracy, is to happen on this island then Scotland is the most likely place. The break-up of the UK state is something to be welcomed by communists, socialists and progressives. There is a small anti-English current, only a fool would deny this, but it is a very small *minority* and the type of nationalism to be found in Scotland is not of the racist, lumpen nationalism of England. It's prompted by the huge democratic deficit that has existed there for decades. Continually ground down by decades of Tory and Blue Labour rule for which the overwhelming majority never voted. It's inevitable at some stage and Blue Labour only have themselves to blame for their utter spinelessness and unquestioning adoption of Tory policies. Returning to electoral gains by the far right. These are only ever temporary and tend to occur in times of economic depression when lumpen, backward elements are desperate for and easy answer that doesn't require too much thinking. 'twas always thus. The far right always make some small gains under these circumstances only for them to vanish again when the social and economic climate improves. I recall the hysteria of the SWP in the early 90s when Derek Beacon was elected in Isle of Dogs, I think it was (or was it Tower Hamlets?)In any event he didn't last long, as I predicted and the current crop of Aryan zealots won't last long either. They never do as post WW2 history has shown. People's memories of the unspeakable evil that occurred when the Fash had a go at state power are still too fresh. There just aren't enough people willing to let 'em have a second go, thankfully.

And yes, I know all about Kris Donald. So what? Do you expect me to go "ah, yeah but..." and make some excuse up because his killers were Pakistani? If so, you still don't get it; I oppose *ALL* racism. That's it. Simple.

On the question of rewriting history, those in glass houses etc... Holocaust was a hoax??? Fuck's sake and you expect to be taken seriously???

I don't remember the trade unions complaining when labour where importing millions of immigrants to under cut the wages of the working class. The trade unions are lead by Marxist vermin and couldnt give a toss about the working class, that's the arrogance of the sharia socialists they think the working class has got to be like them. Well comrade your in for a shock nobodies falling for your bull shit any more, the EDL may have some rough diamonds but hey who cares. The same spirit behind the EDL is the same spirit that motivated young lads to advance from the trenches on the western front. They did it not for the establishment or some shite about diversity they did for there country, for there family. Nobody is being racist when talking about Islam because Islam is not a race, but don't let the facts get in the way of a good old hussy fit. Hows martin smiths conviction for assaulting a police officer going or weyman bennnetts arrest for violent disorder, you'd think the left were all Choristers.

Andyf, get a grip. Your 'argument', such as it is, is becoming incoherent. *I* first made the distinction between race and religion so your point is redundant. As for describing violent thugs and convicted peadohpiles as "...rough diamonds" good luck selling that one to the electorate ho ho ho! ;-) I once asked my mate's Granddad a while ago, who was at Normandy and was decorated for bravery, how he felt about being likened to the EDL/BNP (it's an old argument I've heard several times), what with you boys being the new patriots and all. His words? "We got decorated for killing scum like that. Shame we'd get jailed now. The 'stanis are the new Jews to those idiots and if they got elected the death camps would be up in a jiffy" Salty old fucker he is, at 83, bless him ;-) Interestingly, this is a man no sane person could describe as a Marxist. Voted Tory all his life, loves the Queen and is as patriotic as they come. But then what motivates the EDL is hatred. Pure and simple. What motivated most of the "young lads to advance from the trenches on the western front" was a deep sense of duty and moral purpose and the longer they lived, the more they saw and the sadder they got. Hatred, racism and misanthropy didn't come into it. some of those poor fuckers lived through horrors you and I can't even imagine only to finally break when confronted with the evil and inhumanity of the camps. No, mate; the spirit that inspires the EDL/BNP is the one that inspired Hitler, the SS and the psychopaths who murdered millions in the death camps. Never again no matter how hard you try. Never again.

Harry your salty old fucker of 83 would of been 15 when D day took, and decorated for bravery. Wow what a bloke.

Harry.......debating with you is like trying to debate with any other middle class teenage student. You continually refuse to address questions asked and keep reverting back to Hitler and the holocaust, (conveniently turning a blind eye to the fact your evil communist friends are responsible for many millions more dead than Hitler). I've got no interest in Stalin or Hitler. I'm interested in the way the working class are being shafted by the liberal left and their globalisation agenda here and now in the 21st century. Reverting back to Hitler every 5 minutes tells me you have no coherent arguments. Denis Nielson was a member of the anti nazi league and Fred West was a member of the Labour Party. It doesn't mean that you are simply because you support the same principles. The importation of millions of immigrants is done at the request of big business to provide cheap labour and because its an effective way to destroy nations, (something necessary if we are to 'progress' with the globalisation agenda. Nationalism is the antithesis of globalisation which is why we are demonised by the establishment media and the commies aren't. The middle class liberal left are useful idiots for the globalists. The 'waysism' word kept the British people quiet for years while our country was effectively invaded by millions from the Third World. Contrary to the image presented by the middle class left and hysterical students etc, most people who vote for the BNP, UKIP or English Democrats or who go on EDL demonstrations do NOT hate individual people because they are black or muslim. Only an idiot would hate someone because of the colour of their skin, and only an idiot would want to give the country our forefathers worked and died to give us away to foreign invasion.

Lol@Andyf, my mistake. He's 86, I'm told, and his mrs (my mate's granny is the one who's 83) As for Andyf, well here you go... “Harry.......debating with you is like trying to debate with any other middle class teenage student.” *****Behave. We’ve had this one before. Unlike you, hiding behind the cloak of anonymity, I use my real name and, therefore, my working class status is easily verified***** “You continually refuse to address questions” *****Nonsense. I’ve answered many questions and been given no acknowledgment in return. Apart from yet another set of questions with no answers to mine***** “…and keep reverting back to Hitler and the holocaust, (conveniently turning a blind eye to the fact your evil communist friends are responsible for many millions more dead than Hitler)” *****Two things; Hitler and the holocaust are inextricably linked to the ethos you espouse. And certainly the one espoused by the EDL/BNP. We could be here all week providing inarguable proof in the form of photographs and statements from dozens upon dozens of EDL/BNP members, supporters and fellow travellers who are on record proudly demonstrating their Nazism, some of which took place behind closed doors when they were able to let the public mask slip and reveal their real intent. See here for just a small sample http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-nazis. Whether you like it or not Nazism is the genesis of the EDL/BNP. We know it; you know it so it’s pointless to cry ‘foul’ whenever it’s bought up. It happens to be a proven that fact no amount of lies or protestations can disguise. As for Stalin, well, whether you choose to admit it or not, the fact remains he was a psychopathic mass murdering dictator who perverted the essence of communism and used it for his own ends, the way dictators down the centuries have often done. A personal lust for power and control was what drove him, *not* communism. Had he been born and brought up in Germany he would have turned out the same way. Contrast that with Lenin who, on his deathbed warned his comrades about Stalin or Trotsky who was exiled for opposing him, defending the gains of the October revolution and until his death remained a consistent and courageous foe of Fascism and Stalinism alike. Hitler’s ‘excesses,’ on the other hand, were the *direct result* of his deeply held political beliefs. One lead inorexably to the other as Mein Kampf makes perfectly clear. That’s the difference between the two. While no one would ever accuse these people of having a coherent and consistent political philosophy, it’s beyond doubt that they have merely substituted Muslims for Jews as the new enemy to play the starring role in their feverish paranoid conspiracy theories. The EDL/BNP are the logical and inarguable descendents of Nazism. Fact***** “I'm interested in the way the working class are being shafted by the liberal left and their globalisation agenda here and now in the 21st century” *****This is simply bizarre! The *right* are responsible for globalisation, for feck’s sake! Not the left! In the quest for ever greater surplus value (profit), globalisation is simply the next stage of capitalism and it is opposed by every self-respecting lefty. Your assertion is, frankly, idiocy and is utterly illogical. As an argument this is the political equivalent of arguing 2 +2 = 5. You are quite simply wrong***** “Reverting back to Hitler every 5 minutes tells me you have no coherent arguments” *****Bollocks. Already dealt with and dismantled. Conclusively***** “Denis Nielson was a member of the anti Nazi league and Fred West was a member of the Labour Party. It doesn't mean that you are simply because you support the same principles” *****A fair point, on the face of it, but one that betrays your inability to think a little deeper. Simply put, those two individuals were driven by their *insanity* not because of any adherence to political programme and you know that. Any attempt to argue otherwise is simply dishonest. You may as well argue that because West drank a lot of tea that PG Tips were to blame for his killing spree! On the other hand, hatred of Muslims, Pakistanis, other races, creeds, cultures etc are a key factor and driving force of Nazi and far-right ideology. These hatreds are a component part of those politics and are what drives them. In a quest to provide simplistic and easily absorbed solutions for the world’s ills, these are offered up as scapegoats and as such are at the very heart of Nazism and occupy a central and key role in its philosophy. That’s the difference. And while even I might grant you that Nazism probably isn’t responsible for the child abusers and sex pests in the ranks of the EDL/BNP, it’s not much of a leap to suggest that the dehumanising and degrading of human beings based on skin colour and/or race makes it easier to behave in an equally inhumane way towards children…***** “The importation of millions of immigrants is done at the request of big business to provide cheap labour and because its an effective way to destroy nations, (something necessary if we are to 'progress' with the globalisation agenda. Nationalism is the antithesis of globalisation which is why we are demonised by the establishment media and the commies aren't. The middle class liberal left are useful idiots for the globalists. The 'waysism' word kept the British people quiet for years while our country was effectively invaded by millions from the Third World. Contrary to the image presented by the middle class left and hysterical students etc, most people who vote for the BNP, UKIP or English Democrats or who go on EDL demonstrations do NOT hate individual people because they are black or muslim. Only an idiot would hate someone because of the colour of their skin, and only an idiot would want to give the country our forefathers worked and died to give us away to foreign invasion” ***Read what you wrote. “By the request of big business”. Exactly! *They* are the enemy and the way to defeat them, and their agenda, is to unite and fight back together on the basis that our labour power is what they need and cannot do without. Organise in trade unions and in the workplaces and flex the muscle we have by strikes, protests and occupations. United we stand, divided we fall. *You* play into their hands by weakening our forces and allowing them to, as always, dived and conquer. *You* play into their hands by attacking working class demonstrations and trade union events; *you* are traitors to the working class and you aid those you claim to oppose. We are united by our class and our subservient relationship to the means of production. Not on the basis of skin colour, Christ, how blind must you be not to see that??? So; there are *all* your questions answered*****

Harry.....Thanks for your reply and attempt to address some of my questions. I don't find your answers in any way stand up to examination but we will have to agree to disagree. You clearly don't know much about nationalism if you regard it as a right wing policy. The BNP is primarily a left wing party of the working class with economic policies comparible to the old Labour Party but more radical. They have clearly stated that they would have let the banks go bust and reconstituted what was left into a nationalised bank to be used as a utility, not for the generation of profit. Nationalists support an overhaul of the entire monetary system and are of course massively opposed to our industries being moved overseas in order to maximise profits for 'the global elite'. The same global elite/ multi national corporations who are behind mass immigration and who use lefties like yourself to shout down any opposition to this policy. Nationalists are oipposed to the wars in the middle east as we are opposed to imperialism and we support the rights of indegenous people to their own homelands and that includes the indigenous English. Furthermore we are opposed to our working class boys being sent to the middle east to fight wars on behalf of global corporations and possibly Israel. You talk about dividing the working class, but that is exactly what immigration does. It is now divided into loads of different ethnic groups each with their own values traditions and cultures. Liberalism and international communism are self defeating concepts. Muslims and people or African origin are very rarely liberal. Black people tend to have very intense racial loyalty to their own and muslims have intense religious loyalty to their own. The only people who really believe that muslims, blacks, Sikhs, Hindus, English people, homosexuals, transexuals etc etc etc can all live happily together are middle class white people. Nobody else is playing the game. The vast majority of racist attacks in Britain and the USA are committed by 'ethnic minortities' against white victims. The hidden statistics on this are born out by the experiences of anyone who has eyes and ears and has lived for a period of time in somewhere like London, Luton, Bradford or Birmingham. Try having a gay pride march in Tower Hamlets and you will find out who the real 'fascists' are. Racial, cultural and ethnic diversity is a great thing and we should not attempt to become one global coca cola drinking, satelite tv watching, MacDonalds eating monoculture of zombies. Would you support the mass immigration of millions of Somalians to Tibet or do you think the Tibetan people have a right to their own distinct culture, traditions and homeland? Mass immigration and the whole multicultural experiment is a con trick done to us all by these global corporations and their political friends in the LibLabCon. The idea that to be opposed to this means that you hate black or Asian people is a myth perpetuated by the lefty liberal middle class media. I've visited Jamaica with black British mates who I have been friends with for most of my life. My best friend for years was a Sikh and I can speak a bit of Punjabi. I had a Moroccan Muslim Mrs for 6 years and worked with black colleagues and black kids in a secure unit for young offenders for 12 years. I'll repeat again. Only an idiot would hate someone because of their skin colour and only an idiot would want to give their country away. We are united by ethnicity and nation. The nation is the ultimate extension of your family. Family > Community > Society > Nation. Every people in the world have a right to control their own land free from exploitation by global corporations and global government.

Globalisation and the Protection of British Industry. The BNP opposes globalisation which is extremely harmful to our nation for two reasons: - It results in the importation into the West of millions of immigrants (in the form of “cheap” labour) from the Third World; and - It transfers technology, manufacturing and industry to the Third World. This in turn causes the exploitation in labour in those nations and ultimately the collapse of our own living standards due to the inability of our industries to compete with that “cheap” labour. BRITISH NATIONAL PARTY MANIFESTO 2010 76 DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM, CULTURE AND IDENTITY The BNP also objects to the existence of disagreeable practices in the Third World, often tolerated by globalist corporations in the pursuit of international profit. Such examples include the employment of child labour, the use of political and other prisoners to produce goods, lax environmental rules that would not be tolerated in the West, poor protection for workers, the absence of trades unions and employees’ representation, onerous working hours, an absence of social security systems, health insurance and so on. Clearly, this places overseas enterprises at a considerable commercial advantage and facilitates cheap competition. We are also aware of the restrictions many countries impose to protect their home industry, either in the form of red tape or direct tariffs. We shall therefore impose selective tariffs on the import of goods from the Third World. Only those foreign nations and corporations who agree to abide by our strict social, environmental and ethical trading policies will be permitted to export their goods freely into the United Kingdom market. To allow industry and commerce to adapt, tariffs will be imposed gradually through the years of our first term in office. We are wary of the burden this may place on British consumers. In consequence, to avoid any general upward price movement, we shall reduce VAT (or such equivalent as we may introduce) with a view to securing revenue neutrality. As already observed, some 60 percent of the world’s trade occurs as internal transfers within multinational corporations. This is detrimental to the environment and the measures outlined in this manifesto will diminish this proportion. Not least, the option of closing down British manufacturing or services in favour of the Third World will become an unattractive proposition. Finally, whilst we oppose globalisation, we would observe that the process creates disequilibrium within developing countries where self-sufficiency is eroded in favour of cash-crops, for example, at an expense to the environment.

Manxman we salute you sir, just about sums it up. And that Mr Paterson is the reallity of it. The left think any sign of Nationalism will lead to the gas chambers it's emotional dIarrhea, how can the EDL be nazis when there's a Jewish division and they wave the isreali flag, every EDL demo I've been too theres been non white people there. Funny kind of nazis. Here's a scenario for you, someone dislike the EDL and wants to discredit them...let's call them uaf for augments sake. They send some one along to a demo and start sieg heiling in the middle of the crowd,at the same time his mate takes a pic before you know the pics all over the Internet and assorted lefties are screaming nazis. Google Nicholas Williams uaf for proof. It's how the left operate and the EDL are wise too it. Then you take the picture of "edl nazis" and show old geezer whos isnt to happy. But if old geezer realised the EDL is full of ex forces including me 10 years British Army and listens to what were saying and not what we have projected onto us the old geezer finds he agrees with us. Because were fighting the same fascist ideology in islamism, not all Germans were nazis but they still fought for Germany and not all Muslims are islamists but they'll all fight for Islam if it comes to it. And by the way nearly every veteran I've ever spoke to say if they knew then how this country was going to turn out theyd never of bothered. They feel betrayed,because they have been. Manxman is right though screaming nazis at people whos only crime is be concerned about the way country is going and to voice those concerns is the Mark of a true fascist. Considering the left like think they have a higher intelligence than the rest of the population they seem to have difficulty using past trends to project forward, and see that this country will be Islamic within 60years. Now did your ww2 veteran and his mates fight and die so this country would become Muslim? Of course the biggest pile of shit that the brain dead left tell is that Muslims are the new Jews, no Muslims fanatics are the new nazis. Don't remember Jews bombing buses or grooming young girls in the 30's. But we do get Muslims killing non Muslims every day in the world, islamofascism is nazis for the 21st century and while your working yourself into a frenzy about facists and nazis the real nazis are laughing at you. In the Iranian revolution the lefties sided with the islamists to get rid of the shah and soon as they got rid of him the islamists turned on the lefties as well. And while where with Iran look no further for a real nazis running that country who hates jews.

Cheers Andy......I suspect Harry might have either aspergers syndrome or some sort of personality disorder as well as "emotional diarrhea". Whatever his problem is, I hope he's getting the support and possibly medication he needs for it and I'd still say that I've enjoyed the 'debate'. Harry if you are still reading this I'd be happy to meet up with you for a pint sometime if you are up for it? What do you reckon mate?

Or maybe a free trade organic mocchachino latte espresso if having a pint is politically incorrect for communists these days?

@Andyf, Manxman. Gents, how refreshing to hear some alternative thoughts to those of our lefty friends. I've been becoming more and more frustrated at the left leaning bias of ST. Welcome! I've no problem with Harry, each to their own thoughts I say, but he has been getting too big for his boots lately - nice to see him getting some of his own medicine. Keep up the good work.

Manxman, cheers for the personal insults. Always helps to aid clarity and understanding... and also for the oh-so-sincere invitation for a 'pint', not a euphemism at all for an ambush by mob-handed Fash, I'm sure ;-) But even so, It'd be a stupid man (or a gullible and naive 13 year old schoolgirl, perhaps...) who'd arrange to meet an unknown quantity, from an internet forum, who doesn't even have the balls to use his real name. I'm sure you can see my point so cheers but I'll pass, thanks.

Harrys more into deep fried mars bars

Deep fried Mars Bars? Ye cannae beat 'em. After the revolution they will be free to all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8 Just for you comrade

Well I am not suprised in the least by the nasty ill-informed pile of shite that certain members of the scumbag racist right have posted on here. For your information I have been an active member of the Anti Nazi League and the UAF for 40 years and the biggest insult I have seen aimed at people like me is that accusation that I am some sort of middle-class wimp following in mummy and daddy's footsteps. Me3mbers of my family DIED during the 1940's keepimg Nazi scum like you OUT of this country. By the4 way I hols down the middle calss occupation of Truck Driver you wankers! Now crawl back under the stone you crawled out from under. BTW This isn't the start of a conversation but simply a statement of disgust!

Lol truck driver aww diddums. Honk honk.

Didn't know there were wimpy middle class truck drivers that's a first, no wonder you were in anal

I love it when lefties start pretending to be working class......Fake regional accents and stuff like that. Bless them!

L.O.L as always you middle class leftie British working class hating islamic loving swines dont get it do you!! Harry Patterson your real name!!? dont make me laugh he writes novels.

Daniel, reading a bit tricky for you, son? 'Paterson' (not 'Patterson' doh!) is in fact my real name ;-)

Cant think what the extra P stands for Son, can you?